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| < House Rules ~ Willpower and YOU! (Tai's tl;dr rant on willpower) |
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 Posted:
Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:05 pm
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Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 74
Location: EST
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Okay, I have a tiny little rant that I'm sure is going to make me wildly unpopular, but I just want to get it out of my system. (I have this rant about once a year.) Here it goes:
Every now and then (and not just on this MUD), I rp with a character and find out their willpower, and my jaw drops. Their willpower feels insanely out of proportion when compared to the character they're playing. Now, I don't know their backstories, or their personal rational, but from my observation something feels a little off.
In general, I've always played like this:
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Mortals - average wp 2-4; cap 5
"Special" Mortals (Numina, kinfolk, ghouls) - average 3-5, cap 6
Vampires* (> 250 y/o) - average 4-6, cap 7
Vampires* (250-600 y/o) - average 5-7, cap 8
Vampires* (600+ y/o) - average 6-8, cap 9
*Tremere/Giovanni (> 200 y/o) - average 5-7, cap 8
*Tremere/Giovanni (250-600 y/o) - average 6-8, cap 9
*Tremere/Giovanni (600+ y/o) - average 7-9, cap 10
Werewolves (rank 2 or below) - average 4-6, cap 7
Werewolves (rank 3-5) - average 5-7, cap 8
Werewolves (rank 6) - average 6-8, cap 9
Inquisition (and SOME Hunter Creeds) - average 7-8, cap 10
Hunters (minus some creeds) - average 4-6, cap 8
Mage - Don't know, never played (My understanding is that it's similar to Hunter in discrepancies) |
Now, this may seem low. But, the Werewolf book states that 63% of the population is willpower 4 or below. (76% is at 5 or below.) So, even 6 wp is very high to most people. Willpower is not just how many points you can burn in a scene; it's a measure of the trials your character has experienced. Getting bullied in school? Not a "real" trial. Dealing with the death of a parent? It's going to strengthen you. Dealing with the death of both parents, and raising your siblings? That's a trial. Surviving abuse and coming out unscathed? (Ie - not deranged.) That's a hard one. Fighting off armies of darkness for twenty years, and watching the tide ebb in your favor? Going to try your will. Holding onto your seat of power, while fighting off enemies physically and mentally? That's very hard. Protecting humanity from the evils of the world, with only your faith in God and the power of prayer without losing too much of your cool? That's nigh on impossible.
Ever wonder why character creation usually places you around 3-4 wp before freebies? It's because that's right around average. Pumping two or three freebies into willpower places your character well on their road to being remarkable.
Granted, there are exceptions to every rule. Cops and soldiers are not your average humans; they've seen atrocities on a daily basis. And a cop-turned-vampire is facing a whole new world of atrocities. A street kid who needs to walk by drug dealers to get to school is going to be harded than your average teen, and it's only going to get worse after their first change. Still, these characters would only have willpower 7 or 8. Twenty years of bad things is no comparison to four centuries of it.
tl;dr?
Before you make a 50-year old vamp with willpower 9, think about it. Because putting his wp at 6 and making an awesome retainer might be better.
-slinks off, ducking rotting fruit- |
Last edited by Taipan on Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:52 pm
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Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 32
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| I don't think anyone will be angered by this post, what you say makes sense and is supported by stuff that's written in the books, badically, don't worry about it. And I totally agree with what you are saying. |
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:52 pm
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I'll have a butterscotch sundae I guess.
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Norcal, USA, Earth, Orion Arm
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The only thing that I want to note is (because I agree with this post as a whole) is that the player-characters are unlikely to fall into the 63% or 75% of the world population with average anything. If there are going to be higher willpower persons, they would by default (since a PC is an exceptional being among an NPC populated world) be expected to be PCs.
That said and aside, though, the list of WP per sphere up there are pretty much spot on for guidelines.
Good post. -tucks rotten fruit away for another time and stickies the post- |
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:11 pm
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Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 420
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| Very good thoughts to keep in mind for making enjoyable characters believable without twinking. |
_________________
"Gwna dda dros ddrwg, uffern ni'th ddwg (Repay evil with good, and hell will not claim you.)" |
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:08 am
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Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 40
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BUMP.
Anyone apping a mortal needs to read this board. Carefully. |
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:51 pm
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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 29
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Just wanted to toss in a thought/clarification; Mages start with 5WP as their default, and as far as I'm used to seeing them, seem to fit into this schematic the same way as young Tremere and Giovanni (that is, 5-7, cap 8, with some increases as one moves from adept to master and so on). I could be totally reading things the wrong way, but that's been my general experiences with the sphere. |
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This poster is god. -Leanna. |
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| Posted:
Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:41 am
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Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 31
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| Leanna wrote: |
The only thing that I want to note is (because I agree with this post as a whole) is that the player-characters are unlikely to fall into the 63% or 75% of the world population with average anything. If there are going to be higher willpower persons, they would by default (since a PC is an exceptional being among an NPC populated world) be expected to be PCs.
That said and aside, though, the list of WP per sphere up there are pretty much spot on for guidelines.
Good post. -tucks rotten fruit away for another time and stickies the post- |
Hi, I'm new here...
But all in all, pretty much what Leanna said. The players aren't playing the average, grunt work masses. We're supposed to be playing the heroes/villains of the story.
That's not to say that an otherwise boring, face in the crowd couldn't be an interesting character with lots of personal things going on....But would you as a main character really take a few minutes let alone hours out of your time to deal with such a person?
I don't see the vampires as modern-day managers at a corporation, trained to asked their employees how their days are going....how their families are... |
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:41 pm
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Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 74
Location: EST
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| tomsense76 wrote: |
Hi, I'm new here...
But all in all, pretty much what Leanna said. The players aren't playing the average, grunt work masses. We're supposed to be playing the heroes/villains of the story.
That's not to say that an otherwise boring, face in the crowd couldn't be an interesting character with lots of personal things going on....But would you as a main character really take a few minutes let alone hours out of your time to deal with such a person?
I don't see the vampires as modern-day managers at a corporation, trained to asked their employees how their days are going....how their families are... |
When I wrote this, I was ranting against seeing mortals with 7 or 8 wp, and young werewolves and vampires with 9 or 10. Obviously, PCs are not average. That's why they're so fun! However, it still doesn't mean there should be (multiple) mortals with 8 wp when the average for the population is 2-4. I put that chart up to illustrate that a character with reasonably high wp (say, 5 or 6 for a mortal) is still extraordinary among their peers.
Saying that you character is "above average" is not an excuse to make a twink with tons of wp just for the purpose of rolls. Wp is suppose to be a reflection of a character, not a tool for rollplaying. |
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:39 pm
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Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 72
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